- Foos Rap - We need to talk... - Messages http://arizonafoosball.com/Forums/JitBit/messages.aspx?TopicID=2357 - Foos Rap - We need to talk... - Messages en-us http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/tech/rss Jitbit AspNetForum Tue, 05 Dec 2017 10:55:41 GMT Tue, 05 Dec 2017 10:55:41 GMT http://arizonafoosball.com/Forums/JitBit/messages.aspx?TopicID=2357 Message from chambie
However I have no doubt that once you are back on your feet, that you take Dukes and Stingers to a new level!

As for the rest of you...Ricky is right, this thing is not as broken as these posts would lead us all to believe. I for one will take the high road from now on and focus on the positive and what is working.

Brad]]> Tue, 05 Dec 2017 10:55:41 GMT http://arizonafoosball.com/Forums/JitBit/messages.aspx?TopicID=2357 Message from Jesse Rhode
Yet, I completely agree that I must work harder at promoting fun at our events. Since, often, I do look at it as simply a job. I forget that it is that night of fun for most (not often, but I do). I try, at times, and then meet the fist punch of pain and distraction. This is not an excuse, at all. It is only an explanation. And not one worth repeating really, since I do sincerely wish to grow my vending business. It is an odd business, but also a bit addictive. I am just about the worst person imaginable for it at the moment, but I hope for that to change soon.

Bryan: You are a petulant child that fucked me over with your paranoia. Funny thing is, you accuse Billy of being paranoid as the cornerstone of your attack. Truth be told, I agree that it is a flaw of his that I have literally screamed at him about. Yet, you completely own that fault yourself. You left me high and dry due to your paranoia concerning Billy. You even took out the token mechanisms that you talked me into putting in due to a sudden fear that Billy could somehow fuck you over. Furthermore, you decided to say fuck you Jesse about the table fee's for 3 weeks (which is basically theft), and only paid them back after you simply came to your senses…I left you be if you recall. Plus, you left EVERYONE in the dark about the tokens themselves. And, now, you are attempting to pass it all of as my fault. Which, technically, I guess, it is since I agreed to allow you in. For that, I truly do apologize to everyone affected.

Yet, that is only the beginning. You constantly talk shit about Arizona Foosball and Duke's/Stinger's. You constantly attack me verbally about Billy. The last time over Billy being "your boy" when you have an altercation at Duke's because your team wouldn't "fist-bump" Billy at the beginning of the match. This during a fucking tournament I was forced to withdraw from in which I was supposed to play with Bill, all because a certain parties didn’t want a double draw or x-man. In addition, you were fucking wrong that I didn't compensate the only person that mattered (I gave Travis half his entry fee back), because none of the rest of you deserved any sort of money back since you won the game shithead, and Billy behaved like a shithead.

In addition, I didn't just suspend Billy from Duke's (the only place he doesn't go, according to you), I suspended him from Stinger's as well (the only place that is supposed to have tournaments but doesn't of late). Guess that was a conspiracy though…probably canceled them just because Billy couldn't go. I CAN'T suspend him from other events because I have NO authority to do so! Can Kenny suspend someone from Duke's?! Well, probably…if he asked, but not just because he wants to.

It works like this…Bill works with others to put on a League events. I am one he works with. Kenny is another. Conceivably, if you were not such a dick, you could be another. This does not make us part of Arizona Foosball. Though, I would happily be part of it if I could. You, on the other hand, have blown all your opportunities with Arizona Foosball, The Loft, and my events at Duke's/Stinger's. Thus, your only path to your personal glory is via the destruction of others.

Well, go fuck yourself. Buy your brand new tables. Start a tournament. Take the city over with your badass self. According to you and this forum post, you should have a hella easy time taking over the city with your brand of foosball. I REALLY don’t care. All I care about is that there IS foosball. I provide a service for only one reason, I love Foosball.

Pinalyzer- Not sure what you mean, really. The payment is pretty much figured out as soon as you know how many players are in the tournament at Duke's/Stinger's. I had a set system in the past, but found Brad's to be superior so adapted to it.

*6 Teams or less = 70% / 30%

*7 to 11 Teams = 55% / 30% / 15%

*12 or more Teams = 50% / 25% / 15% / 10%

As far as how much you get for third place, you got $15 you said? Meaning your partner got $15 as well. And that was beyond your entry fee? How is that not okay? I would even say that is high…3rd place is typically where I am happy just to get my entry fee back. If this is directed at other events other than my own, well, I have nothing to say then as they have nothing to do with me.

If, however, you are saying that the money earned should be higher as the rest of your post suggests…I can only kind of agree. I happen to be one of them people holding back time. Hell, I tried to keep a form of free play going due to my cheap nature! I don't want to increase the expense of the game (which seems to be the norm now, usually 1.50 in many places in the Midwest), but I knew that I couldn't keep throwing money into the pot if I wanted to keep the tables up. I doubt highly that increasing the table fee or entry fee would work for our local scene, so I had to do the only thing left to me…stop throwing my own money into the pot. It is still 100% payback of entry fee's, and from what I see, that is fair.

Ricky C- How can something provided to us be broken in the first place?! It can only be broken by people that choose to see it that way. You sound like a WeFoos commercial. Why would any of us really give a shit?! I guess once Bryan rolls out his tables and what not, it will matter, just really sucks that you are selling it already. And, no, I do not think I have the answers. Seems to me that only children believe they have all the answers. And, PLEASE TELL ME, how you are not able to talk to me about any god damn thing you want?! You are just listening to the non-stop nonsense! You could tell me anything, just like everyone else…and I will say, If you believe in it…do it! Ill give you the platform! I have even asked you to do this….so, guess I am a bit confused about your entire statement.

Slamin' Bamin' Duncan- Sorry, but I replaced the light the same day you posted. Lol. Yet, you are right. I am slow on these things because I am spending most of my funds elsewhere. I wish to keep foosball expenses limited to foosball profits, but that never seems to work out. A bar here, many a guy there, a light today, and many balls in the future. I have not had vendor luck of late and I am cheap as shit since I am broke as shit. I apologize and will try to do better in the future.]]> Tue, 05 Dec 2017 04:16:51 GMT http://arizonafoosball.com/Forums/JitBit/messages.aspx?TopicID=2357 Message from Bryan Hendricks Sat, 02 Dec 2017 22:07:55 GMT http://arizonafoosball.com/Forums/JitBit/messages.aspx?TopicID=2357 Message from Ship Of Foos edited by Ship Of Foos on 2/3/2018]]> Sat, 02 Dec 2017 21:28:09 GMT http://arizonafoosball.com/Forums/JitBit/messages.aspx?TopicID=2357 Message from Ship Of Foos Sat, 02 Dec 2017 20:28:24 GMT http://arizonafoosball.com/Forums/JitBit/messages.aspx?TopicID=2357 Message from Slam Duncan The Phoenix area foosball crowd is one of the biggest and best in the nation. Period. We have a large group, a lot of young players, numerous venues to play at with different formats for different players, starting with rank newbies and going up to Hall of Fame veterans and everything in between. Pretty much something for everyone.
This group has been grown from the Combined efforts of several people....Age and Gary, Kenny, Brad, Billy, Jesse, Bryan, and a few that left the scene before I started playing again. This is just the people that are promoting events, either leagues, tournaments, special events, etc. This isn't counting all the behind the scenes people that have also chipped in to help...The people that volunteer to run tourneys, clean tables, stay late to hand out winnings, tons of unseen and mostly unmentioned acts to contribute to the cause.
In my experience, a lot of the negative problems that have come to light with this series of posts are correct - There are issues with table maintenance, lights that are broken or barely functioning, and tables that aren't brand spanking new. My choice to handle those situations has been to either jump in and help maintain the tables or stop going to the venues that constantly have lousy tables to play on. The Loft does a great job with table maintenance, as does Dukes. I have no idea how much Mary would charge for 4 new tables. I'm guessing around $5,500 to $6,000, not counting the shipping. Kinda steep price to pay so that the dozen people or so that are going to major tourneys will have decent tables to play on and tune up their game before the big events. There are also issues with the various personalities involved among the promoters and the way they choose to promote our sport. Different ways of running the tourneys, enforcing start/stop times, rules, payouts, etc.
There have been a lot of new ideas presented recently which may or may not improve the scene here in Arizona. The things that will ABSOLUTELY NOT improve foosball in Arizona are the things that were mentioned in these posts...fighting, lying, stealing, cheating (which was actually brought up on Facebook and not in these posts), character assassination, name calling, and complete and a TOTAL lack of professionalism. Really disgusting that our community is portrayed in this manner on a website that can be viewed by anyone in the country.
I can't speak for anyone else, but, in my opinion, all of these grievances should have been brought up at an in person, face to face meeting between the parties with the grievances and maybe an arbitrator or referee or three....They weren't. So, our dirty laundry is hanging on the clothesline for everyone to see.
Ok, what's the solution to the problem? Phoenix Metro has roughly six million people living in it. Tons of places to put foosball tables and grow a player base. If you want to grow a player base, find venues to put brand new tables and sponsors to help pay for them, find owners and develop relationships that will help promote the sport, implement new and innovative ways to create revenue, increase payouts, by all means get after it. That's what makes this country great...freedom to develop whatever you are capable of developing. The promoters that started in Phoenix have done a really good job, even though it has the problems that it does. Most businesses fail due to a lack of a plan. A plan to grow the business, make changes as needed that won't destroy the customer base if they don't pan out, a plan that looks at all the repercussions of decisions...and a plan that is well defined. If you have ideas and dreams without a timeline, you don't have a plan, you have a wish list. They also fail from infighting, sabotage, and greed. Not to mention personality conflicts of the major players involved.
I'm not sure what the solution should be...all I know is that the fighting and name calling has to stop....it's immature, non-productive, and does nothing to improve the situation...

Sorry for the rambling nature of this post, just putting thoughts on paper without a lot of sleep. So, take it for what it's worth....this post and 4 quarters will get you a pick-up game somewhere.....]]> Sat, 02 Dec 2017 14:33:48 GMT http://arizonafoosball.com/Forums/JitBit/messages.aspx?TopicID=2357 Message from Bryan Hendricks BillyBoy wrote:
Ricky, your last paragraph is exactly how I've been done this all along. I think you need to look a little closer.
edited by BillyBoy on 12/2/2017


Ricky makes such a beautiful and poignant post, and you come back with some empty rhetoric on how Ricky needs to "take a closer look" on all that you've done. To throw shade at ANY player for speaking their frustrations and sadness is reprehensible.

I would be stunned if you could provide a single email, text, or forum post where you express gratitude or simply acknowledge anyone for their contributions to improve foosball that you've actually implemented.
edited by Bryan Hendricks on 12/2/2017]]> Sat, 02 Dec 2017 14:25:45 GMT http://arizonafoosball.com/Forums/JitBit/messages.aspx?TopicID=2357 Message from BillyBoy edited by BillyBoy on 12/2/2017]]> Sat, 02 Dec 2017 06:39:52 GMT http://arizonafoosball.com/Forums/JitBit/messages.aspx?TopicID=2357 Message from Jesse Rhode Sat, 02 Dec 2017 03:58:14 GMT http://arizonafoosball.com/Forums/JitBit/messages.aspx?TopicID=2357 Message from the situasian
I consider myself to be maybe the best example of how the Phoenix foosball system actually works. I was a brand new <2.0 rating player that learned the game through League play, refined my skills there until I was ready for tourney play at Main st mainly and then eventually the Moon and Dukes. I have no chance of being where I am today w/out that league experience. And so for that Billy should get a fucking badge of honor for creating, monitoring, organizing, pointing, and developing the League. Moving forward nothing should be done to negatively impact the league in my opinion. That doesn't mean that there isn't room for innovation, but honestly there is only so much one person can do and in my opinion Billy is just maxed out /tired, he's been doing it so damn long who can really blame him that he's maybe a little jaded or not as passionate as he once was? And I think this is where this recurring theme of "if you think you can do it better, go out and do it, or go out and make it" comes from; I get that where it comes from - fatigue - Brad, Jesse, Billy, you've all expressed this fatigue to me at one point or another and dudes trust me I get why you'd be tired. But, as a promoter that is the wrong mentality to have while occupying that particular position. You guys are the CEO's of this scene. That's like Apple getting feedback from their users that animal emoji face recognition would be badass and then saying, "great, go build it yourself". The user, or in our case the players, are infantile in comparison to the knowledge that the 4 of you have about foosball and promoting and all of technical intricacies that come with it. Kudos to Bryan for coming in and trying to give it his best shot and then some, he's got (or maybe had) fresh legs and is ready to take a stab at "doing it himself". So to criticize him on not doing it correctly or a pace that is unfamiliar seems unfair. At some point we have to adopt a quicker and more agile, iterative approach to improving our scene. Yes, that means gaining product (promoting) knowledge at the expense of failing a few times but that is a necessary growing pain we have to prepare for in order to really take some steps forward.

All of this is to say few things:
  • AZ Foos isn't as broken as some may think it is
  • Our infrastructure of leagues and 4 tournaments a week still develop high quality competitive players.
  • We Foos has a lot to offer in terms of new energy and innovation
  • We have damn near a century of combined foosball experience in promoting but lack communication and management structure to get our of own way
  • We each think we know the right way to promote and do right by the players, but we actually are just shooting the dark hoping we are right.
  • The conduit for players voices to reach promoters in a productive way is sorely missing. There should be a regular surveying of our player base on what THEY want and what THEY think will help us grow that we can then compare to what we think as well

How do we use these things to move forward? Shit has been talked, bridges set on fire, but all out of frustration of spinning our wheels in the same direction. Can we please realize the strengths that you; Bryan, Billy, Jesse, Brad have and leverage those instead of feasting on each other's weaknesses? I get how it's happened I've heard from each of you individually, and its unfortunate, but we can still move forward as a more professional foosball community for the betterment of everyone. It doesn't have to be this way or that way or the highway. Let's give it some time, get to together and talk about it.

-Ricky
edited by the situasian on 12/1/2017
edited by the situasian on 12/1/2017]]> Fri, 01 Dec 2017 18:13:10 GMT http://arizonafoosball.com/Forums/JitBit/messages.aspx?TopicID=2357 Message from Bryan Hendricks
Billy:
Bryan - I think that your method of "making things better" by slandering everything and everyone around you Me pointing out issues that have been on the minds of several people, as some of the replies have clearly illustrated, is hardly “slandering everything and everyone” when most of it pertains to you (especially when they are not there to hear it if you are referring to the other night at Main Street, you walked out in the middle of discussion. You have no particular interest in hearing the concerns of players as you state later in your post. ) and casting an unending net of negativity over every room you've entered is what everyone really needs (whether they know it or not!). And whether you realize it or not, your deep seated hatred and resentment for me stems in large part from how honest I've been with you at every juncture clearly we differ on what honesty means - never in our discussions did you fulfill your end of getting a meeting with Al (owner of Duke’s) despite months of asking. Couldn’t get you to make a decision on installation of the coin mechs, use of the debit card, collaboration on the league side of things, etc despite your, now obviously pretend, enthusiasm. So why not do the same for me, instead of warping the truth in public forums or reiterating what "someone" told you about some issue concerning me rather than talking to me directly I have talked to you directly on every bit of this, getting tables, promotions, etc. I sent you, brad, jesse emails outlining rewards, incentives, event promotions etc. going so far as to offer how you could do all of it without my involvement whatsoever. Everything I have, I offered to share. Even the stuff you refused to look over (because you don’t care what anybody else is doing, remember?) you could reverse engineer. ? And if you just can't do that, then why not take the disingenuous approach and force yourself to be real cool to me, like you are doing with many of the players at the moment because you want them to think of you as the "good guy" to help wage your high-school-style war with me? Maybe it will work on me, too. Fact is, nothing I do is disingenuous unless you consider taking the high road to avoid getting banned disingenuous. Feel free to put out anything I’ve said if you feel I’m not being real. I have no problem telling people, players and promoters included, if they are being fuckfaces. Your way of getting to the truth is to dance around the issue and manipulate, which is why this conversation is happening now after certain truths are coming out. It takes me calling you a dipshit to your face IN FRONT OF OTHER PEOPLE before you’ll finally have a conversation, despite turning to deflection and not actually addressing anything, I and others, have asked to be considered.


A good example of your dishonesty was asserting to me repeatedly that you would like to help all of us improve AZ Foosball in any way you can, and the very last thing you wanted to do was get in the way or cause problems I believe I said I wouldn’t divide players by having a competing tournament - still haven’t done that regardless of how many players have asked me to. The only help you really wanted was someone to fill out a tournament chart, collect money, and call matches. Once your paranoia consumed you with the idea I was a threat to your creation, you did everything you could to cut out all progress made with Brad and again with Jesse. and that if anything you wanted to do conflicted with my efforts or caused any stress, you would find a different region in which to do them. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the post of yours above doesn't sound like you are honoring those statements. So why not just speak your real intentions from the beginning You’re right Billy, I’ve been hatching a plan for the 168 months or so I’ve known you, learning your secrets, pretending to be your friend, manipulating every player into thinking I’m the “good guy” to subvert ArizonaFoosball, you got me there (how’s that for sarcastic?)? Or are you going to instead choose to get angry (again) with me for mentioning an example of the how you roll, and simply because I've stated the truth?

And it's not really so hard to do this stuff yourself! Just work your ass off for 12 years for about $2,000 per year, and grow the player base from 20 players to 200. It's not really so hard, just shit-tons of hard work for no money, and of course, listening to people constantly complain about everything imaginable but your response here is how you deal with complaints. Do you see how you foster resentment in your dealings with people? If you need clarification, read my original post and now my reply. See the difference in tone? , even when you are making no money AND throwing $200 of your own cash into a tournament (Big Sting) or $500 of your own money into a league, instead of reducing the payouts at every event like you did in your 3 week stint at Duke's (that I believe you originally agreed to run for much longer). First, you clearly have no clue why this was done. It was agreed there are beneficial ways to improve the scene other than an increase in payouts. Second, Jesse continues to “reduce the payouts” to this day. It wasn’t an idea we hatched to avoid putting my or his own money into an event, we’ve all had to eat costs in various ways. To imply either of us are cheating players out of money, avoiding responsibilities, not doing the right thing because it’s what you do, etc is asinine. There are other ways to give back.

Here is how the math on that works @ the $2 add per player. 8 teams = 16 players per week multiplied by $2 = $32. $32 multiplied by 52 weeks = $1,664 a year towards promotions, equipment, etc. It took Jesse all of 4 minutes to LISTEN at his house. I would figure you, having a composite 1600 ACT score, could figure out the obvious benefits of this over putting roughly $9 dollars into the pocket of the same 2 or 3 players that win almost every week and even less for those taking 2nd and 3rd. Incrementally it’s small but it adds up and this way the entire community benefits. Lastly, I agreed to help Jesse in a time of need as long as you didn’t get in our business and you did. Simple. I know you are the right personality type for it, and such things wouldn't bother you much.


There's a LOT more I could say to set this "obtuse" record straight, but I'm not going to bother with it This is hardly surprising since you walked out in the middle of it the other night, care to pick it back up at Duke’s tonight? . Hopefully the reader will know better. (And FWIW, I wouldn't have posted even this much of this type of crap if you weren't unilaterally launching it all yourself Um, I didn’t say much for 10 months. Only in the last month have I gotten on you about it and only in the last week or two have I made it clear to explain my position once and for all since you seem to have a habit of defending your paranoia while simultaneously running players into the ground.) Please take care to note, as well, that I have not removed your post, and I never have done any such thing simply because I don't like it. That's how * I * am. I highly doubt that a similar post from me about you on your website would get the same treatment. Gimme a break dipshit, you don’t have an account on my site, said you would never create an account, and if you actually had looked through my site you would know you can’t make posts. It’s beneath you to waste time with my site, but I like what you’re trying to do here, so points for you smile

Jesse:
Did you read anything I wrote? Methinks not. Never did I question the legitimacy on whether balls or money was taken. I simply insist it’s not one of our players and asked you two to stop calling us thieves (more Billy than you, as was stated) until you can provide proof it’s one of us or suggest why it is you consider the thief among us. Other than it being convenient, I’ve not heard one argument that supports it being a player.

Here is why I’m adamant about replacing tables. Several of the really dedicated ones save money and make plans for Vegas every year. The condition of the equipment we play on is a disservice to those making that trip. No way is what we play on even comparable to tournament practice at this point. Warrior balls? Really?

On the issue of foosball profits not affording the purchase of new tables, I gave you the names of at least 4 people willing to rent existing tables. That would have easily covered what I said it would cost you to finance 4 brand new tables while keeping all quarters. No loss in profits. I asked in the beginning and again right before Colorado State. No worries, 2 of them were able to get someone to help.

I’m not saying they are shit per se, but when certain tables are refused to be played on, and/or certain sides, and the final is miraculously ONLY ever played on the same table, it doesn’t strike you as odd that that one table, which is being supremely favored over the others, also happens to be in the best condition?

And here you say “Most of your post just seems like a bunch of whining about how WeFoos is not involved enough due to the evil fuckers named Bill and Jesse. And, of course, WeFoos could do all this stuff much better, Not hardly, just that it could provide assistance for the things Billy hasn’t finished after 15 years of working on them is all. Yet, your post omits a great deal about your personal actions, attitude, and behaviors that always seem to be right in the middle of any drama situation When it involves unjust and unfair treatment of players, you are absolutely right. To say nobody else contributes to any “drama” is unreal. I especially like how it devolves into an outright attack upon Billy as a person and as a contributor to our scene We’re all contributors “to our scene”, Billy shouldn’t get any special treatment at this point if you ask a lot of us. All of it appears designed to do nothing but cause friction between Arizona Foosball and the players. Why would that be I wonder?” Oh I dunno… Could it be that Billy wanted to beat the shit out of a player? Could it be that you didn’t bother to forfeit his ass out instantly or ban him (and not just from the only location he never goes to)? Could it be that three players were forced to play that awkward ass match? Could it be that no compensation or apologies were given? Hopefully you can figure this one out without having to “open the ol’ umbrella” as Frank Zappa might say wink

John aka pinalyzer:
I agree 100% on the payouts not being posted. This falls under the “nonexistent rules or obscure at best” part I mentioned. As it was explained (and I’m paraphrasing), “I didn’t wanna take the time to figure it out so we could just play” was the exact reason the format had to be changed not once, not twice, but three times to accommodate for 5 minutes of NOT thinking it through.

The player which asked to remain anonymous via email says:
Arizona foosball is all about money and bringing in rookies by giving league points so they can compete. It's good to a point, to me it really brings down the game itself and makes playing demeaning . Furthermore put a STOP to all the drama and so called "pro" calls that have been going on for years!

Billy has flip flopped on this many times. Some days he is all about league, the next minute he’s not sure why he wasn’t next in line to take over the Duke’s tournaments. Bringing down the game is an understatement. Elevating a player’s ability to perform at a table is where it should begin. We have 20 year veteran players and promoters that STILL call rules that are non-existent.
edited by Bryan Hendricks on 12/1/2017]]> Fri, 01 Dec 2017 15:22:38 GMT http://arizonafoosball.com/Forums/JitBit/messages.aspx?TopicID=2357 Message from chambie scotty wrote:
Let's all start playing pool instead !!!


Pool sucks, lol!!!]]> Fri, 01 Dec 2017 14:06:49 GMT http://arizonafoosball.com/Forums/JitBit/messages.aspx?TopicID=2357 Message from chambie
Since we are all being truthful here are my two cents on the situation. I will try to be truthful but this is simply one mans opinion.

Bryan, you have done a lot of work with we foos and have some great ideas. But you lack the ability to motivate people to get behind these ideas, and the ability to effectively implement them. Your management style seems to be divide and conquer, I don't believe it is out of spite or anger but is born of frustration of not being able to get your ideas going the way you envision them.

Bill, what you have done for the scene is amazing and we would not be where it is at with out your efforts. However when it comes to new ideas and innovations you are somewhat of a wet blanket and move to slowly and carefully and many innovations pass you by. I know you believe in the path you have taken and this website, however the simple fact is that it is rarely used anymore and you have not been able to deliver what you promise. The best example that I can think of is the tournament tracking portion, where is it? You told me on many occasions that it would be done but it has never happened.

Bill and Bryan I believe your frustrations with each other come from the two items mentioned above, and because of the way you each envision things, put you on opposite ends of the foosball promotion spectrum so to speak. It is sad for me to witness this because I know the two of you were good friends. To see that friendship dissolve over growth and promotion of Arizona Foosball is unfortunate.

Jesse, I value your candor and honesty so here is some back. You have been to reliant on the status quo and hoping the promotions will take care of them selves. You need to be more vocal with the base and promote events to your core players at Dukes. You must also be willing to run some special promotions every once in a while and make sure to give plenty of notice about the promotions. Also work on being that friendly face at the event, it is easy to get caught up in the drama and negativity of foosball, but you must actively remind yourself to stay above the fray. I know about your physical difficulties but you also knew what you were signing up for when you bought me out.

Bryan made a great point that this about all the players, they are the customers and they are always right. Take a close look at yourselves and ask if you are doing this for the players or yourself. If it is the latter you seriously need to consider stepping down and making room for those who are willing to do it for the right reasons. When I lost my drive to deliver a good product and knew I was not doing my best I made the decision to do just that.

To run an effective promotion there needs to be one promoter per event as of right now there are too many voices chiming in about how things should be done. Promoters also need to stick to their guns about certain things and be willing to change when it is beneficial for all the players involved I look at the loft as a good example of how to do it. That is Age's event and she runs it as she sees fit. They have a good crowd and caters to the amateur beginner level player. Also every now and then they jump in on a promotions if it suits her and her venue, like everyone did with the El Jimador event.

Bryan, or anyone for that matter, if you want to run a promotion and think you can do it better then by god do it. If it is good, the players will come. The other promotions will either have to evolve or die, as this is a business. However, if they don't show up, don't blame the players blame yourself. Cactus Moon did not happen overnight we took it slow and started with one table and because of its popularity we quickly went to 4 tables. It also came at a time foosball was struggling, not to say we are in that state now but we are certainly not operating as effectively as we were when the Moon was at its peak. Bill and I did not see eye to eye when Rich and I decided to start running events at the Moon and we did not talk for almost a year. However Bill rededicated himself to the league and I focused on developing the weekly events, the winners were the players!!!

John I like your ideas, they are simple and may cost more money but if people want new tables and a first class experience they have to be willing to pay for it!!! Table prices have gone up about 40% in the last three years alone!

Please remember this is not a business about making money, but it is about creating a promotion for the love of the game and the players, and maybe making a bit on the side. Many people have tried to get rich off foosball but all have failed, and Bryan as much as I like your ideas I just don't think there is any big money to be made in foosball, at least in its current condition.

We have some good things going right now, Swan is back and that is a good thing for all of us. We still have a large player base, we just need to get back on the same page and promote the game and the locations in a positive manner and stop griping about what we don't have and be happy with what we do.

I love the game and the people I have met over the years, and consider many of you good friends. Put your differences aside and deal with your problems like gentlemen and do what you can for the good of the game. We can all agree to disagree if necessary, but we don't need to drag down the entire scene that so many of us have worked hard to develop over the years.

Respectfully,

Brad]]> Fri, 01 Dec 2017 14:06:00 GMT http://arizonafoosball.com/Forums/JitBit/messages.aspx?TopicID=2357 Message from scotty Fri, 01 Dec 2017 13:57:43 GMT http://arizonafoosball.com/Forums/JitBit/messages.aspx?TopicID=2357 Message from pinalyzer Not to get lost in my message, you all are doing great. Yes you need to find a way to getting better tables, but it isn't easy what you all do up there. Not easy at all. Foosball promotion is not about making money, just the way it is. It should be $1.50 a game to account for inflation and entries should be $20 a head for the same reason. That is not reasonalbe so the promotor gets left holding the bag, for complaints, for costs, for everything. There is not a magic wand and those that contribute really need to be appreciated including the players themselves for coming out week after week.
Hang in there and try not to eat your own smile]]> Fri, 01 Dec 2017 09:52:02 GMT http://arizonafoosball.com/Forums/JitBit/messages.aspx?TopicID=2357 Message from Jesse Rhode
At Stingers, people bent up the pins that hold the top and bottom together and fucked up the entire table to enable free play. Why? I don't have a fucking clue. Don't believe me? Ask Bob Duncan as he was there and spent 45 minutes helping me fix the fucking thing. Not sure why people feel the need to doubt this FACT. It is odd since the proof is right there to see. Balls not in the table? Must have been the foosball fairies since Jesse is obviously lying about balls being stolen! Seriously…?!

The reason I made this post is to tell people that if they see someone playing on free play, it is wrong and not to take part. I even know some of the people that have been doing this and have discussed it with them on the side asking them not to do it anymore. I must face the reality of a situation and whether or not you choose to believe me is irrelevant.

In addition, I never felt forced to get out due to losing money on El Jimador. I considered it more due to my health concerns and the fact that performing what was necessary for the El Jimador tournament really fucking hurt. It made me reconsider just what the hell I was doing and whether or not I was going to permanently fuck myself up for a game I love.

Furthermore, for the 100th time, I do not consider it wise for me to invest in four new foosball tables when I am having surgeries and will be next to useless for some time until I recover. In other words, that is a financial risk that I have no way of ensuring works out while I have zero outside income coming in. Foosball profits alone will not cover the payments for the tables.

My surgeries are on December 18th and the 20th. If all goes well, I will be home on Christmas day to begin my recovery process. Once I get back on my feet, I can then assess my situation and determine how I want to go about obtaining more tables. Personally, I am not in and hurry as I do not agree with your obvious assessment that the tables at Duke's are shit.

Most of your post just seems like a bunch of whining about how WeFoos is not involved enough due to the evil fuckers named Bill and Jesse. And, of course, WeFoos could do all this stuff much better. Yet, your post omits a great deal about your personal actions, attitude, and behaviors that always seem to be right in the middle of any drama situation. I especially like how it devolves into an outright attack upon Billy as a person and as a contributor to our scene. All of it appears designed to do nothing but cause friction between Arizona Foosball and the players. Why would that be I wonder?]]> Fri, 01 Dec 2017 09:38:00 GMT http://arizonafoosball.com/Forums/JitBit/messages.aspx?TopicID=2357 Message from BillyBoy you realize it or not, your deep seated hatred and resentment for me stems in large part from how honest I've been with you at every juncture. So why not do the same for me, instead of warping the truth in public forums or reiterating what "someone" told you about some issue concerning me rather than talking to me directly? And if you just can't do that, then why not take the disingenuous approach and force yourself to be real cool to me, like you are doing with many of the players at the moment because you want them to think of you as the "good guy" to help wage your high-school-style war with me? Maybe it will work on me, too.


A good example of your dishonesty was asserting to me repeatedly that you would like to help all of us improve AZ Foosball in any way you can, and the very last thing you wanted to do was get in the way or cause problems, and that if anything you wanted to do conflicted with my efforts or caused any stress, you would find a different region in which to do them. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the post of yours above doesn't sound like you are honoring those statements. So why not just speak your real intentions from the beginning? Or are you going to instead choose to get angry (again) with me for mentioning an example of the how you roll, and simply because I've stated the truth?

And it's not really so hard to do this stuff yourself! Just work your ass off for 12 years for about $2,000 per year, and grow the player base from 20 players to 200. It's not really so hard, just shit-tons of hard work for no money, and of course, listening to people constantly complain about everything imaginable, even when you are making no money AND throwing $200 of your own cash into a tournament (Big Sting) or $500 of your own money into a league, instead of reducing the payouts at every event like you did in your 3 week stint at Duke's (that I believe you originally agreed to run for much longer). I know you are the right personality type for it, and such things wouldn't bother you much.


There's a LOT more I could say to set this "obtuse" record straight, but I'm not going to bother with it. Hopefully the reader will know better. (And FWIW, I wouldn't have posted even this much of this type of crap if you weren't unilaterally launching it all yourself.) Please take care to note, as well, that I have not removed your post, and I never have done any such thing simply because I don't like it. That's how * I * am. I highly doubt that a similar post from me about you on your website would get the same treatment.]]> Fri, 01 Dec 2017 06:39:15 GMT http://arizonafoosball.com/Forums/JitBit/messages.aspx?TopicID=2357 Message from Bryan Hendricks

My question, are we all stupid for having an opinion or just ones that disagree with authoritarian figureheads?

At the end, one can only hope all of our parachutes are open a little bit wider.
edited by Bryan Hendricks on 12/1/2017]]> Fri, 01 Dec 2017 01:56:02 GMT http://arizonafoosball.com/Forums/JitBit/messages.aspx?TopicID=2357 Message from Ship Of Foos
"Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe." ― Frank Zappa

and

“A mind is like a parachute. It doesn't work if it is not open.” ― Frank Zappa
edited by Ship Of Foos on 12/1/2017
edited by Ship Of Foos on 12/1/2017]]> Fri, 01 Dec 2017 01:07:02 GMT http://arizonafoosball.com/Forums/JitBit/messages.aspx?TopicID=2357 Message from Phill Tran Thu, 30 Nov 2017 23:47:21 GMT http://arizonafoosball.com/Forums/JitBit/messages.aspx?TopicID=2357 Message from Bryan Hendricks

In light of all that has transpired over the past few months within our foosball community, last night’s climactic event at Main Street, and the Hall of Fame approaching, I thought now would be a great time to address some of the ongoing issues as to where I stand on several points and perhaps clarify why it is Billy thinks I hate him or what he does so much.

First, I’m a firm believer in “being part of the solution, rather than being part of the problem”. I’ll avoid addressing issues without offering at least one solution, as well as avoid issues that have affected me and only me personally. Second, and probably most important, your feedback to these issues as well as Billy’s public response, would be greatly appreciated so that we as a community can better communicate what some feel has been needing to be addressed for some time. Lastly, this applies to league as well as tournament players so strap in ladies and gents, it’s about to get bumpy!

“For the tournament player, quality of equipment greatly affects our ability to perform consistently.”

A brief history lesson

For the uninitiated, Brad was at a point around January/February 2017 of leaving Duke’s. For months I worked with Brad and Billy on the transition of WeFoos (the company Rissa and I started) taking over Duke’s with the initial benefit of providing brand new tables at Duke’s. The day before tables were going to be loaded onto a truck and shipped to Duke’s in time for the Hall of Fame Warm Up, Billy and Brad decided to sever ties with WeFoos when I gave the ultimatum of only getting the tables on the condition that Billy was removed. If you’ve seen Billy snap at a foosball event or otherwise, raise your hand. Okay then, you know the “why” behind that ultimatum.

The Warm Up happened in the next week or two. Despite believing he had been reinvigorated with promoting foosball, Brad announced his retirement - http://arizonafoosball.com/Forums/JitBit/messages.aspx?TopicID=2167.

Fast forward using bullets, some significant things happened:

  • Brad sold his interest to Jesse
  • El Jimador Tequila put a strain on Friday night turnouts and Jesse lost money
  • Jesse felt forced to sell his interests and offered it to WeFoos
  • Instead of taking advantage of Jesse’s unfortunate situation, WeFoos offered to help
  • Billy threw a tantrum over the progress Jesse and I were making, drove a wedge between us, WeFoos was removed from involvement with Duke’s, and I congratulated Billy on his success in “ruining it for everybody” one more time.


For the record, WeFoos has offered three times to replace the tables at Duke’s with new ones in partnership with or as a financier for ArizonaFoosball. Our offer has been rejected by Billy and/or Jesse every time. We have detailed to Jesse and Billy that they could do this themselves using income from the new tables while renting the existing tables, as well as how they could get them financed through Mary Moore. Yet armed with this knowledge, players are being banned and now recently threatened with physical violence when they make it a point to complain about the condition of some existing tables.

With that note, and other revelations that we’ve all heard or witnessed over the past month(s), I feel it necessary to further explain to you the discontent I’ve now publicly expressed toward Billy and, to a lesser degree, Jesse.

First and foremost, no player is stealing from the tables at Duke’s. Jesse and Billy, you can stop calling us thieves - it’s not like it’s a pitcher of beer, Jesse. However, let’s assume that you are correct despite being unable to provide any evidence that it is in fact one of us. I have proposed several ways to prevent this from happening and for suspected reasons, Jesse has insofar refused to implement any of them. Here are all seven and a bonus:

  • Buy tournament Tornado balls for us to use on Friday night. Once the tournament is over, you take those home and replace them with older or cheaper balls which WeFoos is more than willing to provide. Tournament balls are never taken.
  • Rekey the locks to the table and/or the cash box.
  • Padlock the outside of the table.
  • Stick with table fee. No cash going into the boxes (or at least a minimal amount), ergo not much to steal, if anything.
  • Use tokens instead of quarters. Who wants those, unless it's to get free play?
  • Online registration and payments - again, little to no quarters.
  • Empty the cash box each night if necessary.
  • (Bonus) I will gladly donate any number of balls to the supposed player that is desperate enough to steal them.

    • WeFoos has suggested and offered to pay for any/all of this in efforts to thwart the thievery as well as get you both to stop calling us thieves, yet the posts and outbursts continue.

    Moving on, I won’t get involved with the league handicapping system and its flaws for that is another topic entirely, suffice it to say Billy can’t articulate its intricacies without getting pissed when pressed for clarification. No, the issue today with league is how players are banned, suspended, or threatened with both, over disputes easily remedied by the “league coordinator”. As a player, be aware that should you weather the league storm, remain dedicated for weeks on end, make the required payments, and stick to a schedule, the personal attacks and decisions made by the league coordinator will impact whether or not you are paid at the end of the season should you be owed a payout. As of today, November 30th, 2017, it has been three full months since the 2017 league finals and all league prizes have not been awarded. For the League players of today and tomorrow, by committing to league, you should at least be aware that not getting paid is a real possibility whether it’s disclosed upfront or not.

    Ultimately, we all know this scene could be improved upon. WeFoos has shared with Brad, Jesse, Billy, and anyone that cared to ask, several marketing efforts(many at no cost), event streaming, and a reward program that could easily be implemented, as well as use of WeFoos.com to manage and announce events, register players, take payments, and provide a “need a partner” list among other key features. This and tournament bracket software we are developing are concerns for Billy and explain his refusal to allow WeFoos to be involved in the local promotion scene regardless of how beneficial WeFoos would be to players.

    To remind you of some benefit WeFoos could provide, the two biggest turnouts to Duke’s since Jesse took over have been attributed to the rally of players behind WeFoos for the Friday the 13th “Bad Luck Bring” and the Halloween event sponsored by Breakthru Beverage Company and Stephen Musslin.

    For all of his fears, real or imagined, Billy refuses to allow improvements and progress to be made outside of his control despite the numerous contributions made by every single person reading this now. Quoted from a recent post, his arrogance illustrates how little he cares for contributions made by players: “the foosball environment we see flourishing in Arizona is nearly entirely due to the sacrifices of a small group of capable and devoted people” - full thread can be seen here: http://arizonafoosball.com/Forums/JitBit/messages.aspx?TopicID=2357&lastpage=1#post3983

    The “small group of capable and devoted people” he refers to should also include the players that consistently tolerate his abuse, show up to disorganized events where rules are nonexistent (or obscure at best), as well as dedicate week after week, month after month, year after year to feed quarters into a machine for a game we LOVE.

    Billy has told me, “if you don’t like it, you don’t have to play”. Quite the contrary. I love to play! I just despise you for being a hypocrite, assuming that you are infallible and act as such when your logic is questioned, your constant denial of anything ever being your fault, lack of empathy for players and their struggles, your extreme paranoia, and finally your incompatibility with the words “I’m sorry”.

    Despite what you think, Billy, your “small group” isn’t the only reason this scene exists. It also requires players.

    In closing, I’ll leave you all with a quote.

    “I'd go farther and say that anyone doing any of the things you describe is a 100% asshole.” - Bill Nolan

    Thanks for reading,

    Bryan Hendricks]]>     Thu, 30 Nov 2017 23:13:01 GMT     http://arizonafoosball.com/Forums/JitBit/messages.aspx?TopicID=2357 Message from BillyBoy
    Jesse, I for one know intimately how much time and resources it takes to offer these events and tables to everyone, and that the foosball environment we see flourishing in Arizona is nearly entirely due to the sacrifices of a small group of capable and devoted people who could easily exit the scene immediately for a significant pay raise.

    I think a lot of the players realize that as well. Unfortunately, there are some who do not (or simply do not care). Personally, I would vote for the "gestapo" approach you wanted to avoid; let's get a few names and simply pull some rotten teeth.

    Now that I've chimed in with my biased point of view, I will of course support your preferred plan of action.
    edited by BillyBoy on 11/12/2017]]>     Sun, 12 Nov 2017 00:59:32 GMT     http://arizonafoosball.com/Forums/JitBit/messages.aspx?TopicID=2357 Message from Jesse Rhode
    I feel that I have been more than fair with everyone while trying to find a happy balance with expenses and free play. Why? Because I like free play, damn it! I didn't always own a table, and free play was incredible times for me. I often open up a table, or keep a "free" play table out from the tournament, for no other reason then to provide an opportunity to play and bring us all together. Plus, as Brian Hendricks pointed out to me, this can only help local foosball by increasing the amount of sales for the bar. Though, I must say, they all should be providing us some sort of fooser beer special...like all beer is free for Jesse or something similar.

    Yet, these things are a risk for me...AND for you! If everyone keeps thinking that this shit is free, then the ability to perform upkeep on tables is severally compromised. Look, I am not in this business to "take" from you without giving back. I am, in no way, trying to get rich off of 8 foosball tables! I invite you to look online at the prices of foosball parts...PLEASE! Maybe then more people will begin to realize that this game is actually expensive! Hell, my time alone is more valuable to me then what I ever could make from foosball. It is NOT ABOUT THE MONEY!

    It is about the chess match without the chessboard. It is about the eclectic group of foosers that I consider friends. Yet, I am starting to feel the same sort of pressure to simply shut down all forms of free play. I am a heartbeat away from padlocking every damn table simply to make it all stop. But, I know I can't. That it would bother me more than any of you. So, instead, I would rather ask you to watch out for all of us. I don't need you telling me anything gestapo style. I just want you to not take part. To stop the abuse if you see it. Nothing more. Nothing less.]]>     Sat, 11 Nov 2017 02:21:15 GMT