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zekefooser Posts: 176
10/29/2008
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Seems like at every Tucson/Phoenix tournament we have the same dilemma regarding the points. We are all in agreement that the
USTA points are screwed up and since most Arizona foosers dont tour, why do we continue to use those points? Dan has done it the right way
where he uses Netfoos to keep track of results, and Netfoos itself gives him an updated local points list, which is much better than always going
off USTA non changing points. Billy, I saw that you mentioned that you were going to keep points as well and try to do a hi-lo every month.
Are you using netfoos? If not, why not?
-zeke
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BillyBoy Administrator Posts: 1400
10/29/2008
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We're not using NetFoos. Maybe we will at some point. Just busy with other stuff - and the method I mapped out is quick and simple and will work fine for this purpose. I'm sure NetFoos would work fine as well. If someone wants to take the time to manage the points and tournament using any system they want, that would be great. But I wouldn't hold my breath on that one. 
And yes, the VIFA points have always been shit. Finally, they dump their terrible system for a good one, and it's still a bag of shit because they cannot implement it properly. VIFA is run by a bunch of morons. I especially like the genius who decided to reset everyone to arbitrary point levels, instead of leaving them where they were (which, although imperfect, were still much better than a total "reset"). (In fairness, though, Elo scales very quickly so it wouldn't matter much if they ever bothered to update them. But it's still indicative of the way they think.)
Anyhow, the main point is that we're not using stale VIFA ratings, etc. For the purposes of this little Hi-Low, a simple little system will work fine, as long as it's dynamic.
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zekefooser Posts: 176
10/30/2008
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Just seems like netfoos would make your life easier, aside from giving you a bunch of stats (money, results, etc). I still dont get why you wouldnt use netfoos rather than re-inventing the wheel, other than if they charged for the service.
-zeke
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BillyBoy Administrator Posts: 1400
10/30/2008
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a) I had already written software to do all those things, well before NetFoos existed, so I don't really need them.
b) I have plans to create a lot of things which do not fit with NetFoos.
c) I am concurrently developing other systems, some of which I am able to use for AZ foos as I go along. I do not want to announce publicly what these things are, however.
d) You asked the same question a few months ago when we raised the subject of a new website. You thought that creating an AZ foos website was "reinventing the wheel"; I disagree. If you think that what we do with this website will all have been handled fine via NetFoos, then I suppose we just think differently.
What I don't get, Zeke, is how you can be a bright person, and know that I am fully aware of NetFoos, yet think that I have no reasons for not using it, or that I would try to make my own life harder! There's nothing wrong with NetFoos; I may use it at some point. I've already mentioned that if someone wants to maintain that for us, that would be cool. Right now, I'd rather not spend time with it just so someone else can feel that I'm saving time. You may have noticed that I haven't tracked/posted tournament stats for awhile, either. Everything takes time; I'm presently using mine elsewhere.
But thanks for your concern - It's good to see someone with enough passion to give a shit
<em>edited by BillyBoy on 10/30/2008</em>
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BillyBoy Administrator Posts: 1400
10/30/2008
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Hey - something just occurred to me that may or may not be what you were implying to begin with. (If it is, then excuse the brain fart.)
We (Tucson & Phoenix) have always been in our separate little foos worlds for the most part, so it is just a type of thinking that we've kind of gotten used to. However, if Dan has already set up his stuff with NetFoos, etc., I don't see why we can't just use the same damned list. This would save me some hassle, and should work just as well, or better. That is assuming that it causes no problems for Dan if I update his stuff with our results occasionally.
If that is what you meant all along, Zeke, then sorry I wasn't in tune with you. I just haven't had time to mess with those things at the moment, didn't really need to, and didn't see the problem with simply printing out my current ratings, etc. But it may be much simpler if I can just plug in.
Either way, I will use my other plan for a week or two in the meantime. I may switch over if it makes sense. There is also the question currently if the Hi-Low will even work out (we cannot have underage at Click's).
Dan - give me a call sometime.
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zekefooser Posts: 176
10/31/2008
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dont really feel like responding. case closed.
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Drunk Hillbilly Posts: 4
10/31/2008
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Look, what I don't get is people chime in about idea's they have and they think it's crazy that the person running the tournaments and site for everyone's use doesn't go with their suggestions! Without getting too complicated and rehashing all of the shit that has been rehashed for the last 8 years, its simple. If you don't like how things are done, offer to help do it the way you think it should be done. I would bet Billy would let someone help him. Or.....if you don't like the way it is ran now, DON'T FUCKIN PLAY!!!!!!!!!!! I don't give a damn who you are! I.E. World champ or first time player!!!! Suggestions, great! There's a forum for it but don't bitch when they are not instilled. Like I said, don't like it, take over!!!!! Now, at the same time, Billy, I would expect you to let go of the reigns a little if anyone ever DID DECIDE to take a few things over. I understand you have had a little help with tournies and such but not to when it comes to this particular item we are speaking of. I know it's tough to "let go" when you have put so much time, effort and money into something but if you want help, you need to be open to idea's and in this case, as you and Zeke both said, Netfoos would work. Sooo......if Zeke or anyone else wants to take the time to load everything onto netfoos and track, update names as well as whatever else is required, I say ask Billy to let YOU take it over. This way, you can control it the way you want to. After all, isn't that what this is all about? My 2 cents.
--
www.lagerfields.com
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zekefooser Posts: 176
10/31/2008
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Ok. I'll respond. First of all, my original question is why doesnt Billy use netfoos. The reason i ask is because it seems as simple as enter the chart and you are done. All your stats are
done, your players can go see them, you can go see who beat who, etc. It saves you time since you dont have to compute any stats and upload them to a forum. It makes the presentation
of the data very easy to read and you can see all the tournament results, charts, etc, and your tournament info is all centralized. Again, it saves time. Maybe Daniel can comment on whether it's a hassle or not. Billy stated in his answer
"Just busy with other stuff - and the method I mapped out is quick and simple and will work fine for this purpose"
I understand being busy with other stuff and not wanting to put time into things, which is why i've always wanted to know why not use something that's already there which will
cut down the time you spend with this. Like Billy said, he has his own proprietary software, and does not wish to support the competition. I just wanted to know the reason.
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BillyBoy Administrator Posts: 1400
10/31/2008
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It has absolutely nothing to do with "not wanting to support the competition".
First, you have to recognize that the idea of "competition" in an arena where there is no business and no money is plain silly.
The reason is exactly what I said it was. "I'm just busy with other stuff." I'm not sure how many other ways I can say the same thing. If you want, you can sit with me some day, and when the day is over, you can then tell me which 1/2 hour I should have used differently. LOL.
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zekefooser Posts: 176
11/3/2008
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Anyways, Billy you do more than enough for Phoenix foosball, and I dont doubt you know what you are doing, so i'll let you do your
thing, and save my comments and/or questions. See ya a the next tourney.
-zeke
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BillyBoy Administrator Posts: 1400
11/3/2008
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Suggestions are great, really. But sometimes you are relentless! I mean, I answered your questions, and you kept coming like the Terminator. Haha! No big deal.
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