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beersandlongs
beersandlongs
Posts: 4
2/11/2015
beersandlongs
beersandlongs
Posts: 4
1st off - what a great thing this league is - billy has done something truly remarkable promoting foosball to newbs at a time when foosball is 1/2 way in its grave and his point system and this league is a huge part of that

@ billy

i know you have already thought of this wink
but...

- make gw like the 5bar thing with taking points off

- get rid of the 3way rotation singles - the league promotes foosball to the newbs and beginners and that event sucks for them more than any other

- adjust handicaps of those who rarely or do not play in the league - this will make the games more fair with substitute players


peace
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BillyBoy
BillyBoy
Administrator
Posts: 1087
2/11/2015
BillyBoy
BillyBoy
Administrator
Posts: 1087
beersandlongs wrote:

- make gw like the 5bar thing with taking points off

There have been requests to do such things - including making all the games score that way. I don't think scoring them all (or too many of them) this way would be good for a several reasons:

a) games/matches would take too long
b) would work against the general mechanisms of the league points system (i.e., handicaps are scaled for games to 7; the more points that are added to a game without adjusting handicaps, the more the stronger player is favored)

Item (b) is probably the motivating factor for your request to score GW in this way, since it is difficult for an expert/pro to beat an amateur or beginner in the current league structure. But you need to remember that there are many factors to balance - "fixing" one facet of an issue can break another. While it's true that GW is weighted towards the lower rated players, this isn't necessarily bad on its face. New players tend to get a feel for the goalie position much sooner than the other aspects of the game, and they pay their dues severely in the more advanced aspects of the game - hence their low rating. One of the main objectives of the league (this particular, HANDICAPPED version) is to motivate new players to take up the game. So it becomes a judgment call on where to draw the line with respect to how these new players may fare in various parts of the matches. After years of watching new players show up at tournaments a single time, and never again return, it was very, very clear what the reason was: they got their ass kicked, and they didn't like it. Now, one might say "tough turkey" (and this is what I would say as well, as a competitor). However, if your objective is to have players return and grow the sport, you have to acknowledge that reality and do something to get past it. So is it really a bad thing that new players tend to do well at goalie war? If we take that away from them, would they again tire of losing nearly every single game, and slip away from the game - again?

I understand that you may not be talking about stripping this advantage from the rookie players, but simply rebalancing it a little bit. And that may be appropriate. However, I do think that the particular suggestion to score it like 5BW would be overkill, and quickly convert GW into a game they cannot win. Remember, that brief annoying moment you might have when you drop a game to a newbie and walk away talking to yourself goes away pretty fast. But you just made that newbie's day, and he/she is going to go home and practice this game some more, because he loves that feeling of kicking your pro ass!

I realize the above is a lot of words to answer what seems like a simple question. But I am convinced that the other considerations I expounded upon are not only important, but critical to the overall success the league has experienced, and I wanted to take a minute to highlight these points to the general audience/critics, since they are not so obvious at first glance.

beersandlongs wrote:

- get rid of the 3way rotation singles - the league promotes foosball to the newbs and beginners and that event sucks for them more than any other

Maybe. I've found over many seasons that it actually tends to go over well, which is why it's still there. (Btw, for many seasons we changed the games around quite a bit. They haven't been changed in a few seasons now simply because the current arrangement seems to have proven to be the most popular and successful. But, yeah, it'll change again sometime soon, I'm sure!)

beersandlongs wrote:

- adjust handicaps of those who rarely or do not play in the league - this will make the games more fair with substitute players

You suggest arbitrary adjustment for those who haven't played in the league. But where else could their rating have come from? smile I think that what you are asking for is already how it is done; possibly you think there should be more intervention. But let me ask you these questions: do you think someone should occasionally go through the ratings and adjust them to what they personally feel is correct? If so, who should do it?

As it stands right now, points are adjusted arbitrarily when there isn't enough data. There are also quite a few provisions in the rules to prevent teams from taking advantage of non-established players.

In the end, one should recognize that most of these above concerns are always going to exist to some extent in a handicapped system.

Thanks, Brian, for your insight and taking the time to post these things. You may think I just disregarded them. LOL! But that isn't the case, I assure you. Your experience carries a lot of weight.

P.S. On a side note, we are nearly finished implementing a proper Elo system for tournament players. I would readily agree that a typical league handicapping system is not ideal for competition tournament play. (We have used them in the past, but only because it was the lesser of all evils.) A good scoring system for tournaments is long overdue smile
edited by BillyBoy on 2/11/2015
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Deb C
Deb C
Posts: 15
2/15/2015
Deb C
Deb C
Posts: 15
I agree with Brian on the roto singles... one player gets stuck, usually the newb and then they are mad upset the rest of the night
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